This is a guest post for iamnotthebabysitter.com. We encourage voices of all mothers on the topics discussed on this blog. The views and opinions may not be those of iamnotthebabysitter.com, but we encourage and welcome respectful debate and the opinions of all mothers.
I’ll tell you right up front that this topic is one that my husband and I don’t agree on. We have come to a meeting of the minds, per se – a decision we both can live with. However, I am waiting to see what actually happens when Zoe gets older and needs discipline.
I mean, how could I ever spank this girl?
Before we were even married, we had an argument about spanking. While dining at our favorite french bistro in Windham, the topic came up and got very heated. I am completely against spanking, and my husband believes in it.
I was spanked as a child. Thankfully, I was a pretty good kid, so I didn’t get it that often. I know they had my best interest in mind. However, I bet my parents would tell you, today, they wish they hadn’t spanked me. I also bet – they wouldn’t want me spanking their grandchild!
With my background in social work, I have a hard time, ethically, with spanking. I wouldn’t feel right telling a client to do it, so why should I do it? In fact, when I worked at a maternity home for pregnant teenagers, we taught them to use other forms of discipline. We didn’t want to take the chance they would use the method of spanking incorrectly. When angry, it’s all too easy to spank in the heat of the moment.
I just can’t see the sense in trying to discipline by hitting. It seems to revolve around fear, and that’s not how I want to operate as a parent.
That being said, at the end of the day – my husband and I agreed that he can spank if he tried everything else and nothing worked. It would be a last resort. I really don’t think it will be an issue though. I have a hard time picturing Zubair spanking. Not that he’s a push-over. He’s firm and consistent. But Zoe is Daddy’s little girl…so we’ll see if his philosophy becomes a reality.
I know many parents spank in love and feel like it’s best for their children. I may disagree and be uncomfortable with it, but I can accept that there are appropriate ways to do it.
I know it’s a sensitive topic – but I would love to hear your opinion! Share your thoughts in the comments section.
This guest post was submitted by Jennifer at New Mom, New City. In the last few years she got married; moved to Atlanta; had a baby; and then moved to Los Angeles because her husband landed a job in the film industry. She’s super proud of him and totally excited to live in such a cool city.
Ha, ha, ha…I thought the same thing. Until my sweet little baby became a “precocious” toddler. He’s smart, strong-willed, and independent, which is a recipe for discipline issues.
I was very anti-spanking. And watching my cousin spank his 4 and 5 year olds with a belt has proven why spanking is horrible. It’s extremely hard to teach a toddler not to hit when you hit them. But at the end of the day, you have to remember that life isn’t always perfect and easy.
I’m happy when I crawl into bed and realize I didn’t feel the need to spank. I’m hopeful there are more and more of those days.
Hi Natasha – thanks for your comment and for sharing your perspective. It’s helpful to hear how other families handle life and discipline.
This was never a tough one for me… You know how people always say: “I was spanked, and I turned out fine!” Well I WASN’T spanked, and I turned out fine. I don’t think spanking makes anyone a bad person or even a bad parent, I just don’t think it’s necessary, I’m skeptical about how effective it is in the long run, and I feel like there are better, more effective methods of discipline out there… even for “spirited” kids. I just don’t see the point.
Hi Meagan, I’m with you – I don’t think it’s necessary. I sometimes think that it’s the easy way out. Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective.
When I was growing up, my mom had a policy that she would never spank me or my sister. She never wanted to hit us out of anger, and she would tell us that. Instead, we would be sent to our rooms to wait for our dad to come home from work, then he would do the spanking since he wasn’t involved in the situation.
Looking back, I remember being in school and my friends telling me about getting beat when they were “bad”. There was this sense of betrayal and anger that I don’t think I ever really experienced with my parents’ method of spanking. I’m thankful for that.
I don’t know if when I have my own kids I’ll choose to spank them, but whatever I do, it’ll be with love, and that’s the best any parent can strive for.
Thanks for your comment, Beth. I agree – I don’t feel anger or betrayal towards my parents. I know they were just doing the best with what they had. They gave me unconditional love. My husband provides that for our daughter – so either way, I don’t think it will be a problem.
I don’t mean to disrespect you, but I just personally find “spanking out of love” so gross, even worse than spanking out of anger. I think it would teach kids that love is physically painful at times, and I think that’s completely incorrect. What if your kids grow up thinking that it’s okay for their spouses to hit them because they were taught “hitting means loving”. Or are we supposed to teach them that hitting is loving, but only when mommy and daddy do it? How twisted and disgusting is that? Sounds like the training of a future masochist.
I am very much anti-violence and pro-gentle discipline for many many reasons. I myself am not religious, but have read many great articles on the long-term damage done by well-intended damage. I encourage you to read more on the issue and share with your husband:
a wonderful mom blogger who raises her kids nonviolently:
http://dulcefamily.blogspot.com/2012/08/gentle-discipline-and-strong-willed.html
and a source on some of the sexual problems related to spanking:
http://emethhesed.com/2012/06/17/how-spanking-can-cause-sexual-arousal-in-children-and-affect-them-in-adulthood/
I think you’ll never regret not hurting your child; you may regret hurting them. It’s that simple. My husband and I used to be very much like you and yours, but neither one of us now would tolerate the other hurting our children.
Hi Elsie, thanks for your comment and for the links. I will definitely check them out. As a social worker, I am always interested in reading different opinions and research. And you’re absolutely right – I know I will never regret NOT spanking.
Everything your heart tells you is wrong to do to a child is wrong to do! In my country spanking is child abuse = a felony, god Iam so proud of that! God bless all those popr little souls that are abused in this way
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Carolin. I appreciate your perspective.
My mum spanked, mainly in anger, often repeatedly. It did not teach boundries or respect, it taught fear and anger. Even as an adult I am still scared when people get angry, it has left me with scars and issues. At one point I considered not letting my mum look after my children, but we discussed it and she is a different person now to who she was then. As for my siblings one of them is a dominating and often abusive person, another has next to no relationship with my mum and has often considered cutting her out, a large part of which was related to the smacking.
I also believe that often when a child is hit there is another cause for the behaviour. The child is too tired, the parent is too tired, the child is hungry, the child can’t express how they feel, etc
Yes I believe children need discipline, but there are many other ways to discipline. I know not everyone spanks like my mother did, but I believe spanking is not the best way to discipline and it is something I would never choose to do myself.
Hi Bernardeena, thanks so much for telling your story. I agree that there are many other ways to discipline that are much more appropriate.
Spanking is on the table in my house. The behavior that results in spanking is Direct Disobedience. We’ve spanked our 3-year-old two times. It rarely ever comes to Direct Disobedience from her, she knows the consequences of her actions and we’re pretty consistent with her.
One thing I absolutely do not believe in is lulling over Direct Disobedience. I’ve read some things where mothers will tickle their children instead, or have a time-in (where they spend intentional time with their child instead of continuing to wash the dishes or something). I feel like that’s just rewarding the child for bad behavior. They always say that there is a conversation about how the child’s behavior displeased them and then the tickling ensues…
All I know is that when my child jumps on my bed, and I tell her not to jump on my bed because she could get hurt or break the bed… She listens. Intentional bad behavior always has a bad consequence. Always.
Cynthia, thank you for your comment and honesty. Parenting is hard work – and it’s one thing to have a principle and another to follow that principle. I’m wondering how it will work out for my husband. Either way – I know he loves her with all he has. And that’s the most important.
I strongly believe that there is no appropriate way to spank a child. Spanking or smacking a child is always abuse, violence. I too live in a country where spanking is a felony since 1979. Spanking is never up for discussion here as an alternative. There are other much more effective and healthy ways to achieve a positive change in your family! I warmly recommend reading books from the author Jesper Juul, for a start “your competent child” – for a new way of looking at your child and your interaction together
Hi Linda – Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your perspective. There’s a part of me that agrees with you on no appropriate way to spank, and yet – I know many loving parents who use it as a form a discipline. I’ve heard every child is different – some things work on some and some things don’t. Even if I don’t choose to spank, I’m trying not to be judgmental of those who do it. I will say that not all spanking is abuse. I will look up those books. Thanks again.
I’m sorry if I came across judgmental, that wasn’t my intention. This is just a topic I feel very strongly about. I have no trouble understanding that sometimes all parents Do things they regret but I feel it would be great if we Can help eachother find other ways. Enjoy the books
Thanks. I have learned a lot. I had no idea spanking was banned in so many countries. It would take a lot of effort on the government’s part to make that happen here. We have such a different mindset. It would be nice though. I can’t blame my husband for wanting to raise his child the way he was raised. He loves and respects his mother. But no spanking has taken place, and I honestly don’t think it will.
I also wanted to add that spanking in anger or frustration is always wrong. If spanking becomes a reaction, then it’s time to reevaluate yourself.
The two times that we spanked our daughter, we always sent her to her room first. We calmed down and decided exactly what we were going to say. We talked to her and told her the reason she is being disciplined and then told her what the discipline was, then we spanked her. Both times she cried, apologized and was completely shamed of her bad behavior. She also never loved us so hard.
Hi again – good point. Spanking out of anger is more along the lines of abuse in my opinion. Many critics of spanking say it disputes the child’s trust in her parents – but I don’t have that experience with my parents. I know they loved me and did they best they could.
Wow, I’m surprised. Germany outlawed spanking in 2001 and for European standards that was VERY late. I didn’t know that the US are even further behind and that spanking is still considerd to be an approbiate punishment.
To be honest, I have no idea why parents feel the need to spank their child in order to discipline him or her.
Hi Mia, Thanks for your comment. I had no idea that so many countries have banned spanking. I wonder if the US would ever do such a thing. There is a very different mindset here, plus we don’t like people telling us what to do when it comes to our kids…
I found this interesting article about Sweden – http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-09/world/world_sweden-punishment-ban_1_corporal-punishment-elizabeth-gershoff-parents?_s=PM:WORLD
It brings up a larger issue about the rights of children in general. The US is far behind in many ways.
That’s where I live – Umeå! Thanks for sharing the article, it described the differences well I think. We talk a lot about childrens right. Right now we talk and make new laws regarding childrens rights to information on their level when their parents, siblings or other close have to get medical care.
Greetings Linda, proud member of an unspanked generation
We are very against spanking, and I’m grateful that this is something my husband and I have strongly agreed on from the first. Although we were both spanked as children, we do not feel it is an effective or appropriate form of discipline.
My just turned three year old daughter has recently started hitting her baby sister. While this is very, very upsetting for my husband and I, I am so very glad that I can sit my daughter down and say, “We do not hit in this family.” It’s our family rule, and it’s as consistent a rule for our children as it is for us- no hitting. Ever. Spanking to me is a form of hitting; the only difference is the word, but it is still a raised hand resulting in a physical blow to the body.
While we are still working on the most effective way to teach our older daughter not to hit her sister, I am so glad that we do not have to struggle with the hypocrisy that spanking would personally cause us when telling her not to hit.
I really feel for you in your situation as I would not be able to compromise on this issue with my husband; it’s just too important to me. I hope that you are able to work together to develop discipline methods that you are both happy with and work for your child.
Hi Tiffany, Thanks for taking the time to comment. No need to feel sorry for me. I don’t feel like I am compromising. No spanking has taken place in our house.
This whole experience of posting the article has created the opportunity for a healthy discussion between my husband and me. I think it’s hard for some people to go against what they were taught as kids. I honestly don’t think he’ll end up spanking. No one can blame him for wanting to raise his child the way he was raised. He is a loving and gentle man, who could hardly hurt a bug. I love and respect him.
I’m an attachment parent, but I believe in spanking. I was spanked as a child and never felt scared, abused, unloved, or anything like that. I actually remember my parents being grieved over having to spank me. We reserve spankings for acts of willful disobedience – particularly those that endanger our son. He has probably been spanked about 4 times. Every time with a warning first, and him being told he would get a spanking if he disobeyed – and then he looked at us and went ahead and did whatever we told him not to do. We spank him one time, never in anger, and then we hold him and tell him how much we love him and that we want to keep him safe and that is why he has to obey us. Then we immediately go back to playing and all is forgotten. He normally starts out crying, then hugs us and nods while we explain why it happened and the next second all is well. All in all, it’s probably a 2 minute ordeal. Much better than trying to talk things out ad nasuem (in my opinion). And the spankings become fewer and fewer because he next time, he obeys the first time we ask and doesn’t test us. I love my son more than life itself and would never do anything to hurt him. Proper discipline, given in love, is part of responsible parenting. Luckily it was modeled for me so I have a good example to work from. I understand that people would rather take a hard stance against it than wrestle with how to do it properly, but it is my personal view that spanking is necessary sometimes. There are plenty of other ways to distract, take away, talk for “normal” day-to-day stuff.. But if a spanking will prevent my son from running away from me out into the street next time, you better believe I’m going to do it!
I was a spanked kid and I think there are other ways to discipline a kid. My sister and I were the kind of kids who were not getting that much along so we got into a lot of fight and got quite a lot of spanking. Never the hard way, hopefully!
Still. My mom is a hot blood, anxious, jewish kind of a mom and it didn’t help. So when my sister and I were fighting, she would come and scream and spank and my sister and I would end up together in one room, talking and laughing about how fast she would react and how kind of funny and predictable it was. At least we forgot about the fight.
But spanking didn’t really add on a special lesson in our case!
Its so funny that someone that says that follows Jesus does not remember to mention the scriptures when they teach to spank children so the children will not bring shame to your family. I was spanked a couple of times and I learned my lesson. My parents were not my friends, they were educators, responsible for making me a better person. Now, as an adult they are my friends. Children need to have limits and fear something. All this bull**** about not spanking has destroyed America values and morals. Too much social workers and problematic people getting involved in private family matters.
Elisa, nowhere does it say the author of this post follows Jesus.
Also, if anyone is curious about the verses of the Bible promoting spanking, most can be found in Proverbs. This book was written approximately 2500 years ago. Proverbs speaks about spiking your children with a rod to save them from Sheol (various definitions refer to Sheol as either hell or a waiting place for souls before the final judgement- so even that can change the overall meaning of the text). However, it is important to point out that the book of Proverbs uses axioms to aid in the symbolic and poetic wisdom it is attempting to give to the reader of the time. The word “rod” used in the “pro-spanking” Bible verses actually comes from the Hebrew word “shebet” which has many non-violent definitions, but for arguments sake we will go with the seemingly most violent: “shebet” is commonly used as the word for a shepherds staff. This would give the reader the analogy of shepherd (parent) and sheep (children). Westerners still may be confused by a shepherd’s staff and assume it is used for violence. However, the shepherd of this time, and of current times in the area, are not known for hitting their sheep with their staff, rather it is used as a guiding stick. This staff is used to guide and discipline the sheep to make sure they have freedom without stumbling upon danger.
I have heard this “shepherd’s staff” argument a lot of times, and in my opinion, it makes a vague attempt to appease those who don’t believe that God in all of his wisdom could condone spanking (or more correctly, physical chastisement, which is referred to many times in the Bible as something that God does to HIS children). But I don’t know how you can misinterpret “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” That’s not “leading and guiding with a staff”. It’s pretty straightforward.
It depends on what translation you’re reading to interpret that one correctly. The version I prefer using (because of it’s accuracy in getting across the points that the original writer would have wanted his reader to get during the time it was written) says “Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.” I don’t believe the bible lies and if we take the national statistic that five children die every day in our country as a result of child abuse – that would make that statement a lie.
I’m not sure what you are trying to convey with this comment Elisa, but the times that you seem to hold up as those of moral fortitude were rife with abuse in the home. Both women and children were beaten mercilessly, with little reason other than that they had irritated the man of the house.
God may provide perfect discipline and chastisement. However we are not perfect beings. One of my many failings is a propensity to lash out in anger. I will not put my child in the way of that by beginning down the road of corporal punishment. Gentle loving guidance, with the grace and mercy of Christ always in the forefront of our minds is the path that our family has chosen. I am blessed that my husband agrees with this approach. Respecting our children and seeing them as people, who deserve and require more understanding and mercy than we ourselves do, is the key to raising them well.
Also – if you are trying to make an argument for Godliness, avoid profanity. Starring out a word is not good enough. Profanity adds nothing and detracts much from your argument.
My sister and I were both spanked growing up, by our mother and by nannies. It only happened once or twice, but that was what made it effective; we never repeated the offense that caused the spanking. For me, I remember throwing a fit in a store, and my nanny pulled me out and spanked me in the parking lot. You better believe I was an angel at every shopping trip that followed. I think if its done right it won’t have to be done more than once, your kid will learn.
“You better believe I was an angel at every shopping trip that followed. I think if its done right it won’t have to be done more than once, your kid will learn.”
Your kid will learn, but what is it they are learning? That they better behave under threat of physical violence?
When my kids behave, it’s because they were taught that mommy and daddy won’t take them to places they will likely want to revisit, which basically reflects the reality of all social relationships. In other words, f you act like a jerk, people won’t want to be around you and you won’t end up getting what you want.
They’ve learned that kind cooperation, courteous communication, and compromise lead to more effective fulfillment of their wants. They self-regulate.
Physical discipline is just the basest form of operant conditioning. Why not intellectually engage our children instead?
IMHO-spanking is wrong, it causes problems. Many problems are well documented and is a reason why countries take steps to protect children. Why do we have children? If I was smacked every time I made a mistake I’d be a very unhappy 30-something. We are capable of learning by our mistakes by having it explained that our actions are wrong. Count to ten and walk out. Discuss right from wrong-discussion above about children’s right to information on their level should be rolled out worldwide! Why shouldn’t children know what happens in the world? Teach, don’t taunt.
I grew up being spanked – it was rare because I was overall a good kid. And I hate being in trouble, which might stem from the spanking. I remember being slapped once- that was horrible.
I have a daughter. I will not spank her. I made the decision when (I work for a criminal defense lawyer) reviewing a case and seeing the person charged with assault for hitting someone. It occurred to me, I could go to jail if I got angry/frustrated with someone and hit them, but it is considered “ok” to hit a child? Nope, not in my book.
Would you like to be spanked as an adult when you mess up? Children are far more likely to make mistakes then we are yet we make mistakes and do not get spanked. So why would anyone rationalize that it is okay to spank a child. Would you accept your boss coming into your office and spanking you when you make a mistake? Parents need to put into perspective what a child is…a human like you and I so treat them with the same rights. Why would you humiliate your child and then tell them you love them? That sounds like an abusive relationship. Children are going to make mistakes. They need to believe we love them unconditionally even when they make mistakes. You will then foster a child who wants to be good for you….not one who fears to be good for you. This does not coincide with the underlying principals of attachment parenting. If you agree with spanking, i respectfully disagree that you are an attachment parent. Attachment parenting is about the realationship. Shaming your child is not about the relationship. Children make mistakes, they will grow up, they will learn and in the meantime we need to love them and provide safety. Connect before you direct….don’t try to teach in the face of shame and fear.
Shauna, who are you directing this comment to?